Announcement From The American People

[Crazy_Ivan]

=D.C.L.I=TuRb0jUg3nD Wrote:Even the Washington Post has become a safe haven for the powers that be.

it\'s either walk the bush way and get the hot news, or not walking the bush way and get the news afterwards or not at all. journalism is a battle for news, anything is allowed...

=Yellowbelly Wrote:an extremely volitile, fundamentalist country that hates you.

Take \'fundamentalist\' back and i agree with you.

What\'s your definition of country... Iraq is (and was) nothing more than a bunch of lines on a map with a flag, just like Yugoslavia. In the end it will fall apart like Yugoslavia, and any other state that tries to get people from very different cultural and reliuous groups to live together and feel ike a nation.

=isoFlux Wrote:the Sunni Muslims are the only group that is actually protesting the implementation of a Democratic government. it isnt because they dont have a hardon for patriotism or freedom, its because they want power. the Shiites are the majority and have been shit on by the Ba\'ath party since it\'s institution. they dont mind a democracy because it gives them the perfect chance to instate an Iranian-style Theocracy and totally fuck over the Sunnis. and the Kurds have been shit on during this whole mess.

Sunnis had the power (while being representative for about 20-30% of the polulation) the rest didn\'t. It\'s because they are certain that they loose the vote (and they will, esecially when they keep boycotting the elections) that they don\'t want the election.

What i think the result of these elections should be is a divison in two or three semi-independent parts (Kurdish north, Shiite south and Baghdad and the area around it as a special region) with their own governments, and a central government that handles national matters. Most likely it\'s a dream that won\'t become reality...

[joeb]

you might want to check this out.
It\'s a Dutch site, but the videos are linked on the right side of the site.

http://www.vpro.nl/programma/tegenlicht/.../19365659/

the film has Dutch subtitles, but is in English

[=D.C.L.I=TuRb0jUg3nD]

Seen it. Exellent Stuff. Proves beyond doubt (if you were ever in doubt, that is) that Bill O?Reilly and Geraldo \"Fuckface\" Riviera are indeed Satan?s spawn.

[The_Punisher]

No, i\'m talking about a standard political test. You have liberals on left, conservatives on right and dead moderate being dead center.

While all of Europe might be incredibly liberal and sees all the major news source as being unbiased because they have the same viewpoints, it doesn\'t change the fact that Fox News is the most unbiased news network out there.

It might seem incredibly far to the right, it only is in compared to your own viewpoint.

[joeb]

Punisher, have you seen the news channels here?
If no, then how can you compare it to fox, also did you watch that film?

[isoFlux]

\"left\" and \"right\" is as EXTREMELY subjective. there is no \"std system of left/right political scaling\". it doesnt exist. it can\'t. all you can do is compare: \"Europe is more left than the US\", or \"FOX is more right than the other news stations\". other than that, there is no way to quantify political beliefs.

Crazy Ivan: exactly my point

also, the 2nd quote is also mine. i\'d say the Muslims in Iraq are pretty fundamentalist. they take \"the word\" pretty literally and seriously.

and, yes, ive seen Outfoxed. it\'s kind of like the Micheal Moore stuff: some good points, some iffy-stuff, and some \"wtf?\" stuff. but it made more sense than F9/11. FOX is without a doubt the most Right-leaning news syndicate airing in the US. period.

Noam Chomsky has some really good stuff detailing the implementation and affect of the mass media in a democracy. i totally reccomend picking up some of his books.

[Yellowbelly]

FOX is the most right leaning News source in America. But does that make it propaganda or does that make it worse than the other stations? By all means no.

When CNN just shows nothing but bad stuff happening in Iraq and has people on the show that say nothing else but how the war is bad and how crappy GWB is, it becomes fact to the people who do not look up other sources to judge for themselves. Fox still tells the bad stuff, but it also tells of some accomplishments in Iraq but even still we\'re not getting the whole story. An Army major just got back from Iraq and he was quite pissed off at the media for not showing a decent side of the story. I\'ll try to find it.

[isoFlux]

withholding, biasing, or fabricating facts for the purpose of proving or disproving a point is propaganda.

this means that just about every news organization in existance is propaganda of sorts. but FOX has just taken it to the next level. they are both very very right-leaning, and at the same time using \"Fair and Blanaced\" as a motto.

don\'t be fooled: all news is biased. when something big happens in the news, watch CNN, FOX, BBC, and a French news station (i am not familiar with any). you will get very polarized views on that very same event. does this mean that one is right? no. does it mean that one is wrong? no. it just means that they all put a twist on the story based on public opinion, advertisers, and whoever is writing the story.

but FOX in particular has some of the most biased, propaganda-like, twisted takes on events, both international and domestic.

[=D.C.L.I=Everest]

Yellowbelly Wrote:An Army major just got back from Iraq and he was quite pissed off at the media for not showing a decent side of the story. I\'ll try to find it.

The decent side of the story of an Army major in Iraq? Good luck with finding that

A lesson for you some hard-headed Americans on monarchies: in Belgium, you can legally drink alcoholic beverages and smoke cigarettes at age 16. In Holland, you can legally buy and use weed and derivatives at age 18. Both are constitutional monarchies. You don\'t know us. We actually have a lot more freedoms (except guns). We can even get away with criticizing our government without getting looked at weird. Can you imagine that?

On news & media: they are, as Flux said, always biased. Every reporter grew up with certain beliefs, and on the way he\'ll get together with people that share those. That\'s why media corporations end up on a certain side of a political spectrum.

As for propaganda: I\'d define that as media output clearly controlled and directed by a government, with the idea of shoving beliefs down people\'s throats. In that aspect I wouldn\'t consider Fox a propaganda network, more an \"infoganda\" one. Still, it\'s about just as bad, just a definition thing to me.

Flux: don\'t mention Noam Chomsky, you might get laughed at

[The_Punisher]

What about 2 points is very right leaning?