Discussion on aim stances,

[Destiny@Work]

So, since TTR was one of the first games to introduce ironsights why not be the or one of the first to introduce a third aim stance?

I would like if we have 3 aim stances,

Waist height: default for moving around and good for smg spray fire, I think this one should be changed alittle from now, if its possible so that you actually look on the weapon rather than the half height position now in TTR or RO.

This change would make this stance less effective for hipping and be more like real life.

Shoulder stance: This one is the new one, you would look over your weapon which is placed more or less at the screen center, you dont use ironsights but the barrel of the gun to aim.

This stance should be the main stance for smgs and for firing from walking, since it would provide an ok accurancy good enough for midrange combat.

Face height: This one is the actual ironsight, where you really look through them and have a very limited field of vision.
The advantage is you can fire very accuratly aimed over long distance, it would be good if after 1 sec of not moving you would get a slight zoom in(focus effect) as little bonus.

For all stances there should be sway and freeaim, to support the designed use even more.

What ya think?

[LivingTarget]

Without images I find this really hard to imagine, the first one i\'m really stuck with I can\'t imagine looking \'on\' the weapon.

The second one if i\'m correct sounds like there might be something there. Do you mean like actually looking over your shoulder? 3rd person?

3rd? Hmmz i wouldnt really like to look into the sight using my chin as support.

Gameplay wise its sounds like a half good idea, but implemented? I can\'t see it, explain some more perhaps

I dont wanna sound like completely bashing the idea, but lets say I got a melee button as middle mouse. Then I have alt fire as ironsights where would the second stance go then? ANOTHER button?

[Sober]

Yeah, I suggested shoulder stance a long long time ago in a TTR version far far away...

Best suggestion I have so far for this feature would be to make it some kind of tap/push variable. Tap puts it at shoulder, push will put it to your sights. Kinda how like in some older console games (ala Super Mario), holding the B button to jump makes him go higher.

But then we get into the arguement of how you can bring a gun up to the sights in a split second.

[Destiny@Work]

You would have two buttons/best mousewheel for raising aim/lowering aim.

For shoulder aim, no 3rd person there, you just look over your barrel, which makes it better than the actual used hip modes, but not as good as ironsights.

For waist mode, thats why i said I dont know to which degree it can be realized, but in real life you would look on your weapon, giving you only a vague idea where you shoot, ingame it cant be realized i fear, but it should be lower than actual hip modes.

[Reno]

One possibility on this is to not force another button. instead make the shouldered stance an instanced thing.

ie:

when standing with the IS up you have the focus down the IS,
but when you move, you lose focus on it, so instead opt for the shouldered stance where its mostly accurate, but you can see better, and then you have hipped, which is self explanitory

[Sober]

Reno Wrote:One possibility on this is to not force another button. instead make the shouldered stance an instanced thing.

ie:

when standing with the IS up you have the focus down the IS,
but when you move, you lose focus on it, so instead opt for the shouldered stance where its mostly accurate, but you can see better, and then you have hipped, which is self explanitory

This is definitely the most fluid way to do this.

Move(standing) = hipped
Stop(any stance) = shouldered
Move + Crouch = shouldered
IS = secondary fire button (DUH )

That will mean that you will need to simply re-MOVE the model (remove == bad ) when you are standing.

I think the MOHAA way of hip to shoulder was done pretty close.

[Destiny@Work]

Would be possible, I just favor having control of every thing I do, thats why I suggested the mousewheel orientated way, but this might work out too.

[isoFlux]

ok, ive been \"developing\" (i.e. thinking about) this exact topic for the past week and a half. ive come up with something similar to what has been suggested here. ive just taken some sample screenshots in INF 2.9 to illustrate my (and others\') ideas. i used INF because its aiming animations are perfect for demostrating this, as RO\'s and TTR\'s aiming animations tilt the weapon up or down then move into aiming position, so getting a \"straight-shot\" screenshot halfway through aiming is impossible.

ive just given this thread a very cursory scanning, so if my suggestions have been layed out above, oops

ok, i am assuming five movement speeds: walking, jogging, running, and walking while crouched or prone. click on any of the pics to get a larger view.

ok, first we have a running position. no firing your weapon, and it dodges across the screen. this can also represent the prone-movement, but would have a more America\'s Army animation, with the rifle btween the arms, pulling the avatar across the ground.


now we have the regular \"hipped\" aiming position. this will be the normal aiming position for the jogging movement speed. firing is allowed.


ok, here is the new, \"shouldered-aim\" position. there are two ways it can be introduced; i will mention one now and one later. the first is to have it automatically happen when a player is still (prone, crouch, or standing) or walking. when you start to jog, it goes back to the \"hipped\" position, and when you stop, after a second or two, it returns to the \"shouldered-aim\" position.


here is the tried-and-true \"aimed\" position. this can be attained by pressing the bound \"aim\"-key only when in the \"shoulered-aim\" position. movement is \"locked\" into walking if the avatar is standing up, and if he changes posture, drops to \"hipped\", then back to \"aimed\" (or, if not aimed to begin with, to shouldered-aim.) i suggest NOT incuring a movement penalty while aimed, because walking with ironsights up is do-able, its just not very accurate


now, for the second implementation of \"shouldered-aim\". how about making the \"aimed\" mode hold-aim, instead of toggle-aim, and making shouldered aim hold-aim. ok, tap your \"aim\"-key, you get \"shouldered aim\", hold it down, and you get ironsights (aimed position).

i am partial to the first, because it is less complicated and doesnt require the player to jam down on his right mouse button so much, but both would work.

[EDIT]
i just read above about the mousewheel idea. wow, great thinking. that would definatly work, except for not everybody has a mouse wheel. and those who dont will be forced to bind more keys to their keyboard and make a quite gaudy key-layout. i still think the auto-shoulder thing is best because its the simplest and best for all PC-configs.

[ElvenKind]

How the keys are implemented should not be \"hardwired\" imoh as a lot of people tend to like it differently. I for one can\'t stand commands where I have to hold a button as I just can\'t do it right. If I have to hold a button down while navigating, I loose much of my control due to how my trackerball is built. This is also why I usually customize every FPS with selfbuilt scripts to change the controls into something I like/am used to. (Ie, leave some choices to the user, especially when it comes to interaction.)

As for the stances, I do like them. I think they might need some further explaining/polishing, but in general I like them.

[isoFlux]

well, the mouse-wheel idea is analagous to the push-and-hold idea. you would just make a few custom INIs to re-bind the mouse wheel and toggle bShouldered, and bAimed.

but, again, both of those indruduce complication, and it might be easier to just go with the auto-shoulder.

plus, one could argue that it is second nature to a soldier to bring their weapon up to their shoulder in a combat situation whenever they can do so with practicality (not jogging or running).