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dr.moe · 11-03-2005, 06:52 AM

isoFlux Wrote:
joeb Wrote:Iso, I take it you mean education instead of IQ?
No. I do not have a source, but I will find one, or will revoke it. Yes, what I said may have sounded crazy, unrealistic, and downright racist, but I\'m 100% positive I have heard from multiple, independent sources that the average IQ of the black race is lags behind other cultures in the US. I\'m not sure on the details (how much, etc), but I wouldn\'t be surprised to find it to be true.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence . Interesting read.
Also, take note: I am not arguing for the effects of racial genetics on IQ, they are nearly non-existant. Rather, the social and cultural affects on intelligence, which are based on race(ism).

see, this is one of the problems with IQ tests. giving the test to someone that doesnt read the language is ridiculous. also, testing someone about an area outside of their scope of experience is ridiculous. there was one instance of a group of schools in kansas
who\'s kids were scoring low in standardized tests. turns out they didnt understand what a hill was or something. along the same lines, giving an IQ test designed for American classrooms to a papua new guinea tribesman will show that the tribesman has a very low IQ.

this is the inherent flaw with grading something as intangible as intelligence. now, i know that there is something called \"stereotype threat\"(or something like that) where being told that you cant do something because youre south-american/pacific-islander/white/black/asian/male/female/poor/rich may affect your performance on the required task. though that threat also works in reverse, so big deal.

isoFlux Wrote:
dr.moe Wrote:but the point is that slavery sucked and now its done. the best reason to learn about it is to keep such craziness from repeating. but that is the extent to its effect on modern day society.
I beg to differ. The affects of slavery linger today in a major way. One example: the language and slang of the black community, including both old and young (pop-culture). Why are the black dialects so poor in terms of conjucation and grammar? I submit that it is a direct decendent of black people being kept from literacy until the middle of the 20th century. What about black people not being able to seriously vote until the mid-50s/early-60s? Was that because they chose to live in areas of poverty? Or was it because of white-skin-priviledge still trying to bludgeon its way into the US democratic system?

a couple things right here - the dialect (poor in verb conjugation and grammar) of which you wrote isnt limited to black peeps, its a southern dialect. cruise down to georgia or mississippi and everyone, regardless of race, talks that way.

living in areas of poverty? well, the great-state of mississippi isnt exactly a powerhouse state.

isoFlux Wrote:
dr.moe Wrote:now saying that the reason a black man is more likely to commit a felony because a white dude enslaved his great-great-grandad implies that black people have the exclusive possesion of something hitherto only alluded to in science fiction called a "racial memory."
What about "social memory"? It isn\'t an affect on individuals. Its about an entire culture, society, and government oppressing and enslaving a minority for over 200 years. Is that going to go away in 10 years? 20? 50? 100? No. We\'re talking billions of people (you, me, my parents, your parents, their parents), not just one black dude and his grandfather.

.... im not too sure what you were trying to convey there, but it got me thinking about something: perspective. we\'re talking 200 years of slavery and crap performed against a singular group. and because of that eyeblink, black peeps have lower IQ\'s and steal stuff?(i paraphrase and simplify because im lazy) my thought was about the jewish peeps - theyve been persecuted for longer than a couple nations. basically, they would crowd together in their ghettos(i think thats where the term comes from) and whenever the society fell upon hard times theyd blame it on the jews. they were enslaved and murdered and all kinds of crazy stuff - but that doesnt seem to slow them down now.

the recap: slavery happened, it stopped in the us but now we just cant let it go. whatever we do to rectify it is too little, but to let it sit and stagnate is worse. can more be done about racism? always, but failure to acknowledge what progress we\'ve made shows that progress cant be achieved. the past is done, accept it and move on.

if you(anybody) feel yourself inferior because your \"race\" was enslaved for a couple hundred years - i feel sorry for you. seriously man, the environment is just a huge excuse or a rationalization, it always comes down to the person. there are really just two questions that need be answered
1.) What do you want?
2.) What will you do to get it?
My grandad\'s place in society will never affect my answers to those questions.