The Terri Schiavo thing

[The_Punisher]

Unfortunately, the media is showing this as one of two ways.

1.) This woman is suffering. Her husband wants to just let her pass away.

2.) This woman is a person. Her Family wants to take care of her and keep her alive.

Unfortunately, neither even get close to broaching the truth.


Evert, when I say immediately, I mean concieved within days.


Also, about Michael. His wife recieved the shit end of a chemical imbalance. How it happened, we will never know. What we do know is that her husband, Michael, stood over the body of his dieing wife and did nothing. He didn\'t perform CPR for which he knew (although you can\'t be held accountable for not performing CPR). He didn\'t go for help. He didn\'t call for help.

He stood over his wife and watched her die. Make of this what you will.

[Sgt. Boomer]

1. The hospital where she was first admitted found that Terri did not have a heart attack. There were no cardiac enzymes in her blood, and no abnormalities in her EKG.

She was “admitted into the emergency room with a very, very stiff neck consistent with brand new injury to her neck. Testimony given at a 2002 evidentiary hearing revealed that Terri was presented at the emergency room with an extraordinarily rigid neck described by one physician as consistent with attempted strangulation”.

2. “During 1998, she was evaluated by Dr. James Barnhill, neurologist, who testified that he examined her for ten minutes and determined that she had no chance for recovery, and was in a persistent vegetative state. He obtained no blood pressure nor did anyone else, apparently, on the day of his exam. No tests including Urinary Tract infection evaluations, blood tests, EEGs, evoked potentials, or new CT/MRI exams were ordered.”

3. In May 2002, neurologist and 1999 Nobel Prize nominee William Hammesfahr, M.D, examined Terri Schiavo for 5 hours and concluded (among) the following:

The patient is not in coma.
She is alert and responsive to her environment.
She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise.
She responds to music.
She differentiates sounds from voices.
She attempts to verbalize.
She has voluntary control over multiple extremities
She can swallow.
She can feel pain.

He also stated: “Interestingly, I have seen this pattern of mixed brain (cerebral) and spinal cord findings in a patient once before, a patient who was asphyxiated.”

4. Michael Schiavo:

“lives adulterously with Jodi Centozone, with whom he has had two children.”

“After wining control of Terri\'s treatment, plus medical malpractice and other legal awards totaling some $1.6 million, Michael had Terri\'s cats, Shanna and Tolly, put to sleep.” (What kind of inhuman #%$%! kills cats. Oh, I guess the same kind of #%$%! That would kill a disabled person).

“Terri\'s family complains that Michael has denied Terri speech-, occupational- and other therapies that could strengthen her mind.”

“According to the September 2003 deposition of Terri\'s nurse, Carla Iyer, Michael asked, \"Can\'t you do anything to accelerate her death?\" and \"When is that bitch gonna die?\" When Terri\'s health waned, Iyer said he would exclaim, \"I\'m going to be rich!\" then discuss plans to buy a car, boat, and European vacation.”

Sources: 1, 2, 3

And if you really believe he’s going to give that money to charity, well then… (I’ll edit in an end to that sentence when I’ve thought of something relatively witty and not too insulting --- in the meantime ).

This isn’t about Terri’s “right” to die. She’s in no position to make her wishes known, and Michael Schiavo is hardly credible.

It’s about whether the courts can extend the frontiers of euthanasia.

Incidentally, the Nazis’ first experiments in “euthanasia” began in 1938, when a German man wrote to Hitler asking that his severely disabled child be granted a “mercy death”. The case, “so moved Hitler that he ordered his personal physician to establish if the claims were true, and if so, that the child be granted euthanasia” (imagine Hitler being moved- almost brings a lump to one’s throat… oh wait, that’s vomit).

[[JR]]

Your points are all very well and good, and make out Michael Shiavo to be a black hearted ****ard. Which could all be true. But that doesn\'t change the fact that we still do not know if Terri would indeed want to be take off the machines that are keeping her alive. Whether Michael did indeed put her into that situation himself through attempted murder or assault, is a seperate case, and should be investigated as such.

As for the cats, if you can\'t or don\'t want to look after them, why not put them down. Maybe im a black hearted ****ard too, lol.

[Sgt. Boomer]

Quote: doesn\'t change the fact that we still do not know if Terri would indeed want to be take off the machines that are keeping her alive.

Precisely, which is why Bush’s statement, “we should err on the side of life” is so true. Perhaps she did say once in a conversation that she’d rather be dead than live in a disabled condition. Who hasn’t at some point said they’d rather be dead than do or be something or other. That’s quite different than actually being in the situation.

I’ve heard and read of veterans saying before they went into combat they hoped they’d be killed rather than seriously wounded. But they all changed their minds once they were in the reality of it.

I find it pretty ludicrous for people to say “let her die in peace” when it’s impossible for them to know that’s what she wants. Odds are pretty good she’s too brain damaged to even understand the question.

Which means the important question is one for our society and how we treat our most vulnerable members.



( you black hearted cat killer )

[[JR]]

I guess I agree with you there, on both points

[=D.C.L.I=Everest]

I have to admit that I hadn\'t heard any of what you summed up, Sgt. Boomer. But that doesn\'t lead me to believe it\'s all true.

If he really tried to kill her, than that should be investigated accordingly, so that he can be punished for that. But that\'s a whole different story then.

Imagine how it would be if they would\'ve proved right away that Michael tried to kill Terri. He would\'ve ended up in jail, obviously. But that wouldn\'t change the fact that she has severe brain damage, to the point that she will never function as a normal human being. The bed Terri\'s lying in will either way be her death bed.

Also, I\'d like to reconsider labelling her a plant. From what I learn of Dr. Hammesrfahr\'s findings, I\'d say she\'s more of in an brain-damaged animal state than brain-dead plant state. So she tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise? Sounds like my dog, except that my dog can process her own food. To say this is no more cruel than saying she\'s a plant. Technically I\'m being nicer about it

But the bottom line is: she just can\'t perform as a human being anymore, whatever the true reason for her condition might be. She\'ll never love, laugh, live again. I know I would never be able to take that if it\'d happen to me.

Finally, an idea I had when I was thinking about this... We can choose a line on our identity cards that shows we want our organs donated in case of death. Why not just add a simple line saying that we want to be killed if we become braindead? Problem solved 8)

[The_Punisher]

Evert, do you think that we should put down mentally handicapped people just because they\'ll never be of full mental capacity?


(btw, I was just about to bring up what Boomer brought up if Evert prodded it any further).

[=D.C.L.I=Everest]

Let\'s distinguish between those born in a state where they can\'t fully function on their own and those who end up there by accidents, okay? All I\'m saying is that people who were lucid before should have a chance - and therefore, a right - not to live like they wouldn\'t want.

Are you trying to damage me in this discussion by making it sound as if I said that all mentally handicapped people should be put down?

[The_Punisher]

Yes, I am. Because that\'s what you\'re saying.


This woman is not a vegetable. You are supporting Michael\'s right to euthanize his retarded wife.

[Yellowbelly]

Let\'s just treat this as a coma type thing. Is it illegal to euthanize a person in a coma. If not, then she shouldn\'t be killed, murdered, euthanized, etc. If it is legal, then we move on the next step, is it ok to kill a mentally handicapped person. If so, then Michael should have every right to put down his wife LEGALLY, even though it\'s completely wrong.