Black people in prison/death row

[joeb]

Iso, I take it you mean education instead of IQ?

[dr.moe]

isoFlux Wrote:...
The oppression and enslavement of the African race in the United States is the main reason for the lack of education, limited resources, and high crime rates found in black communities in the US. The average black man is poorer, has a lower IQ, and has a higher chance of engaging in crime NOT because of his race or his ethnicity. It is due soley to the fact that the white man enslaved his race/culture for nearly 200 years.
...

****DISCLAIMER: i think i may offend a peep or 2(sorry). also, i use the terms \"black\" for african-american and \"white\" for caucasian-american because im too lazy to type the full terms. also! i have no clue where cauca land is on a map.****

what?! :rofl: now that just sounds silly.

i guess the reason that the asian population is doing badly scholastics etc. because they were enslaved to make the railroads and work in the mines? oh wait, they\'re not doing too badly - worse yet! - i just employed the use of another stereotype.

now, i understand that the enslavement of the african race back during the country\'s inception, conception, revisement and reception didnt help anything. though, it is ironic that louisiana\'s attitude toward slavery was different. ANYONE could go into enslavement to pay off debts or something ~ thusly there wasnt really a higher race. they had a racially diverse military that tried to fight with the confederates during the civil war! the confederates were kinda shaken by their attitudes toward humanity and didnt want them.

i kinda rambled there, but the point is that slavery sucked and now its done. the best reason to learn about it is to keep such craziness from repeating. but that is the extent to its effect on modern day society.

and im leaping among points, but the big thing to do isn\'t to blind yourself to the difference in skin color(i mean, its damn obvious that there\'s a difference in melanin content). that doesnt solve anything and loosens ones grip on reality. instead, accept the difference just like a christian accepting the existence of judaism (christ was a rabbi anyway) and that the dalai llama kinda does make sense, etc. things are different! accept it and move on.

now saying that the reason a black man is more likely to commit a felony because a white dude enslaved his great-great-grandad implies that black people have the exclusive possesion of something hitherto only alluded to in science fiction called a \"racial memory.\" and though that\'d be cool, its not true(or else we\'d know how we got to this planet and the answer to the evolution vs creation question).

now, the result of felonious action stems from ones environment, rearing and fiscal situation. true, if you\'re born in a poor neighborhood gaining a healthy scholastic education is more difficult. but thats the source there! if you want to be a successful businessman you can either go to school and study or find a way on the streets. the first way is more socially acceptable but neither way is easy. but in a lower income neighborhood the second way may be the most accessable.

so yeah, the past has little to no affect on the future. its what you do with the present that determines your future. thats all i got, hope it made some kinda sense.:tup:

[isoFlux]

The_Punisher Wrote:There are so many programs in the US to give blacks and even poor and misfortunate people a leg up. This isn\'t just something that started this year either. Many of these programs are starting to get in their 30\'s.

But the fact that many people CHOOSE to move into places with high crime has nothing to do with Slavery at all. Or even what happened 20 years ago.

Societies don\'t change on a dime. 30 years of half-endorsed social programs isn\'t going to change a few hundred years of some the most brutally enforced racial oppression seen in a so-called \"democratic\" world power.

joeb Wrote:Iso, I take it you mean education instead of IQ?

No. I do not have a source, but I will find one, or will revoke it. Yes, what I said may have sounded crazy, unrealistic, and downright racist, but I\'m 100% positive I have heard from multiple, independent sources that the average IQ of the black race is lags behind other cultures in the US. I\'m not sure on the details (how much, etc), but I wouldn\'t be surprised to find it to be true.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence . Interesting read.
Also, take note: I am not arguing for the effects of racial genetics on IQ, they are nearly non-existant. Rather, the social and cultural affects on intelligence, which are based on race(ism).

dr.moe Wrote:i guess the reason that the asian population is doing badly scholastics etc. because they were enslaved to make the railroads and work in the mines?

Many races and cultures have been the target of descrimination and descriminatory legislation throughout US history. None of them compare to the enslavement of Africans. All other descriminatory phases have been just that: fads and phases. The enslavment and oppression of the black culture is deeply rooted in our nation both in terms of legislation and social norms. If you want to get specific with the Asian cultures: one of the main focus of their collectivist culture is Academia. It is not only regarded as one of the most important, but many times the ONLY important measure or aspect of success (coupled with the job attained from education). This is simply a difference in priorities within social rulesets.

dr.moe Wrote:but the point is that slavery sucked and now its done. the best reason to learn about it is to keep such craziness from repeating. but that is the extent to its effect on modern day society.

I beg to differ. The affects of slavery linger today in a major way. One example: the language and slang of the black community, including both old and young (pop-culture). Why are the black dialects so poor in terms of conjucation and grammar? I submit that it is a direct decendent of black people being kept from literacy until the middle of the 20th century. What about black people not being able to seriously vote until the mid-50s/early-60s? Was that because they chose to live in areas of poverty? Or was it because of white-skin-priviledge still trying to bludgeon its way into the US democratic system?

dr.moe Wrote:now saying that the reason a black man is more likely to commit a felony because a white dude enslaved his great-great-grandad implies that black people have the exclusive possesion of something hitherto only alluded to in science fiction called a "racial memory."

What about \"social memory\"? It isn\'t an affect on individuals. Its about an entire culture, society, and government oppressing and enslaving a minority for over 200 years. Is that going to go away in 10 years? 20? 50? 100? No. We\'re talking billions of people (you, me, my parents, your parents, their parents), not just one black dude and his grandfather.

Perspective: my generation (probably most of us) is the first to be brought up with the idea of racial and cultural equality. My parents (children of the baby-boom) grew up in schools and societies where segregation was not only the social norm, but legally enforced. It wasn\'t until they were in highschool or college that people started to conceptualize and accept the idea of racial equality enough to push for TRUE equal rights, not just pseudo-equality.

The social clock isn\'t measured in years, or decades. Things are getting better, but we are still feeling the affects of slavery in many, many aspects of our society. Give it another 50 to 100 years, then we\'ll see every black man getting the same pay as the white man, black people committing as many crimes as white men, and educational institutions providing equal education to both races. Of course, that\'s not to say it\'s going to happen on its own: the reason it will change is because of the effort of everybody, not just the minority.

[Sgt. Boomer]

In the US:

Quote:“Blacks comprise 13 percent of the national population, but 30 percent of people arrested, 41 percent of people in jail, and 49 percent of those in prison. Nine percent of all black adults are under some form of correctional supervision (in jail or prison, on probation or parole), compared to two percent of white adults. One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 was either in jail or prison, or on parole or probation in 1995.”

While in Britain:

Quote:“The number of black prisoners in Britain\'s jails has risen 54% from 7,585 to 11,710 since Labour came to power. At 16% of all those in jail, the number of black prisoners is hugely disproportionate to the general population, where African and Caribbean people make up just 2% of the total.”

So there is a definite imbalance. And some of that can be attributed to imbalances in the law and how it’s applied. I’m sure if O.J. were poor, white or black, he’d be on death row (or maybe even if he was rich, white, and not famous).

You raise some good points on slavery Iso. And I do remember something about the heinously politically incorrect study on IQs.

But I think more than anything it’s the culture of victimhood, envy, and entitlement that the left breeds among its supporters. And blacks do vote Democrat at a rate of 90%. That was understandable when the Dems were giving them the vote and civil rights. But lately all they’ve had to offer is rhetoric to feed the status quo. The playing field isn’t perfectly level yet, but it’s level enough to produce Collin Powell, Condi Rice, that Oprah beast, and plenty of middle class Af. Am’s.

And among those who are poor it isn’t Les Miserables in the US. You don’t see starving blacks stealing bread to feed their families. Crime is still a choice. So the core problem isn’t racism, but a failure of moral values.

[=D.C.L.I=Everest]

LONG POSTS! :wtf:

I\'m only going to do Pun\'s reply to iso\'s post here, for now. (Nothing personal, I just don\'t want to go and waste half an hour reading everyone else\'s posts )

The_Punisher Wrote:I was going to remain as calm as I could, but I just have to call Bullshit on Iso.

There are so many programs in the US to give blacks and even poor and misfortunate people a leg up. This isn\'t just something that started this year either. Many of these programs are starting to get in their 30\'s.

But the fact that many people CHOOSE to move into places with high crime has nothing to do with Slavery at all. Or even what happened 20 years ago.

Well then I\'m calling bullshit on you now!

Giving blacks a leg up in the 30\'s, what the hell? Do you know Rosa Parks (RIP)? She started the whole fight for equal rights for black people by refusing to move out of a \"white\" seat on a bus. That was in 1958. She wasn\'t necessarily poor or misfortunate, she was black. In 1958. I\'m sure she would\'ve loved to hear you say that there were programs to help her out back in the 30\'s. Too bad she\'s not around anymore, she\'d give you the ass-whooping of your life!

[Reno]

Um, looking at the wording that pun wrote, i think he meant that some of the programs have been around for nearly 30 years, ie, the 1970\'s, not the 1930\'s

[The_Punisher]

Yeah, I was just in the process of saying that they are 30 years old. But my computer decided to crash on me.

[=D.C.L.I=Everest]

Hookay. Apologies for misreading your post, then. But it\'s still sad if those initiatives are a mere 30 years old. Despicably sad.

Also, you say they \"CHOOSE to move into places with high crime\". What? :con: Ever heard of the sociological term \"ghetto\"? People move to places they can afford to live, not only financially, but for sociological reasons too. Don\'t you think poor black people would \"CHOOSE\" to live in Beverly Hills or something, instead of The Bronx or whatever?

You\'re from PA, right? 10 % of PA is black, 90 % lives in big cities. Do you hail from a big city, or a sleepy town up somewhere in the Appalachian hills? It\'s quite typical for xenophobes to hate/fear/misunderstand what they don\'t see, and I think you are one. I bet talking to black people from a big city would be an eye-opener.

[The_Punisher]

Dude, I lived right outside of philadelphia. It\'s those assumptions that are killing your case.


If you did some realty research, you would see that I am indeed correct.

If you did some history research, you would use the word \"Ghetto\" correctly.

[=D.C.L.I=Everest]

Sorry, but you\'re so obviously \"white-people-minded\" that it\'s beyond easy to assume you never came in touch with black people.

And you\'re only dodging the question with those irrelevant peculiarities. Back to the topic at hand, please.