Recoil

[Reno]

I\'ve been having this juggle around in my head a fair bit while doing the weapon animations, and it occurred to me how archaic the current method of representing weapon recoil was, where the camera shakes alongside the weapon, and it you shoot too much, the gun carries your whole body untill you\'re facing the ceiling! D:
I\'ve seen some point fire guns, and obviously this isn\'t the case, so i\'d been pondering a better way to handle recoil, and figured the best way is to let the weapon animation handle it.
By that, i mean say you have a rifle like the Kar98, or the M1.
When you fire there\'s a sizable amount of recoil to it, but the recoil is mostly absorbed into the shoulder, and while the gun hikes upwards, the head receives only a minor amount of that given recoil.
So looking at it, you could take the universal model, apply that fancy recoil animation, and what do you get?
The weapon hikes upwards, the screen jarrs, but the screen doesnt totally follow the gun on it\'s acent. as the fire animation ends, the gun repositions itself at the firing position.
This could easily be designed so that each time you fire the gun, it plays the recoil animation, and the screen jarrs, the gun jerks up, and your aim becomes terrible, but you won\'t find yourself looking at the ceiling.
This sounds pretty solid, and wouldn\'t be terribly hard to implement, so it could be in pretty fast.

The thing is, is this realistic, or at least moreso than what is currently in TTR(resident gun users?), and is that something you guys would like to see done in the game?

[Smithcraft]

Overall, I like your idea better than the way recoil has been handled by most systems.

But the problem I have with recoil is that trained soldiers deal with recoil. If you go to a range and shoot, you will get recoil, but with the training given to soldiers since the Civil war, recoil, if portrayed at all, should be minimal.

Of course there are game issues like balance and all that. Perhaps recoil should apply more to hip fired weapons, rather than IS weapons. So while the view of the player doesn\'t change much, the aim point of the weapon goes all over the place(with in a certain area).

SC

[The_Punisher]

Well, it seems like an interesting idea at the root of it, but it really comes down to shooting style. What you said is true of european counter-terrorism teams who have a knack for holding an SMG extended out in front of them.

But other schools of style, including the older way to shoot a gun, tries to join body and rifle so that firing is just a simple action, instead of a complex action needed to get everything just right.

Part of this is to make it muscle memory to put the head on the stock. It does get recoiled quite a bit.


Now, as to handling recoil, I love how Infiltration handled it. They have free aim for about 50-60% of the screen\'s area. Then they have unbridled recoil. This means that there is no automatic return. If you fire the button, the gun goes up by itself. If you fire fully auto, you have to fight the recoil and muzzle climb to keep a fairly accurate grouping. Then, depending on the gun, the fully auto function becomes more difficult. Ala an Mp5 is easy to control full auto, while a relatively light M14 with a big cartridge is harder to control. This system, while not necessarily accurate to what actually happens, has a huge amount of freedom, difficulty and reward to it (not to mention weapon collisions).

My only quarrel with it, and it is a HUGE problem, is that the weapon models are too far away from the eye. It is almost impossible to get a sight picture through some of the tiny sights. Moving the eye to roughly 3-5 inches behind the rear sight would fix this problem, accurately portraying how someone would actually hold the gun.


Now, here comes the compromise part. You have to figure out what you actually want, what is realistic, and what is best for gameplay. Free-aim isn\'t necessarily realistic. While I can freely aim my guns around, I have increasingly little control over them, as well as an awkwardness of position as I stray away from my base position, not counting increased strain on myself.

As to recoil, you have to gage what is most realistic, versus what can draw the most amount of people. Do you implement an Inf type system where there is unaided recoil? Or possibly another one where there is bullet spread based off of cone firing or side to side recoil? Or some sort of compromise like TTR? Or, if you have a lot of time on your hands, you could implement both and make it a user driven option.


There isn\'t an easy solution, and someone will always not like the outcome.

[Reno]

Well, as you\'ve got shooting experience, what would you like to see ideally?
Since ttr\'s always been as effective a merger between realism and fun as possible, trying to find an ideal middle ground that feels, if possible, slightly better than the current solution in ttr99 would be nice.
Not to say what is in ttr99 isn\'t any good, as you said it\'s a pretty good compromise, but if we could figure out something better, that\'d be, well, better.

[The_Punisher]

Well, I\'d like to see an Inf style system. That\'s because I like the freedom and difficulty of it. But it\'s clear that this drove away a lot of people.


The current TTR system is most realistic.

[tomcat ha]

I agree the infiltration system with some adjustments is the way to go.