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+--- Forum: Political Debates (/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Fighting Evil (/showthread.php?tid=695)
RE: RE: RE: RE: Fighting Evil - Sgt. Boomer - 11-02-2005 04:19 PM
joeb Wrote:I know a lot of that is true, although I think you made that cardboard shredder thing up on the spot.
No, that was a major news story back when the war started. Though I was wrong about it being for cardboard- it was a plastic shredder.
From The Guardian:
Quote:In one of Iraq\'s most notorious prisons, Abu Ghraib in Baghdad, there were plastic shredders. They were a bit like an office paper shredder, except more robust, because they were designed to mince up old plastic. There, though, they were used to shred people. Just before the Americans arrived, (Ann) Clwyd says, the Iraqis \"were executing all the remaining prisoners, and that\'s why nobody is found alive at any of the prisons\".
But just before the war, Ms Clwyd met people in Kurdistan who had been in Abu Ghraib - \"in fact they were the last people to come out alive\" - and they confirmed the story. \"People were either put in head first, or foot first. If you went in foot first, it took you longer.\"
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/interviews/comment/0,11660,982922,00.html
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,903809,00.html
You have a charmingly na?ve view of the military if you think everybody follows orders without question or deviation. Soldiers are people and people are fallible. And the US isn’t perfect. But on the sliding scale of morality they are far ahead of Saddam’s regime.
joeb Wrote:believe me the US government does not give a **** about human rights!
Whether or not they actually have any (bleeding)heartfelt concern for the vulnerable of the world, the US remains the nation most committed to actually doing things to advance human rights. Which begs the old question- if they’re rights, why aren’t they self-enforcing?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Fighting Evil - joeb - 11-02-2005 07:35 PM
Sgt. Boomer Wrote:joeb Wrote:believe me the US government does not give a **** about human rights!
Whether or not they actually have any (bleeding)heartfelt concern for the vulnerable of the world, the US remains the nation most committed to actually doing things to advance human rights.
Perhaps they do in absolute numbers, but per head of population the US isn\'t that \'commited to actually doing things to advance human rights\'.
Sgt. Boomer Wrote:Which begs the old question- if they’re rights, why aren’t they self-enforcing?
You\'ve got to be kidding right?
RE: Fighting Evil - Sgt. Boomer - 11-03-2005 03:11 PM
I think it was meant to be irony (I was quoting someone or other).
The point is, it’s very nice of the UN to grant every person on the planet the right to vote and to be free from torture, but guess who’s enforcing that right in Iraq? Guess who’s enforcing it in Vietnam? Oh, that’s right- nobody (thanks to people like John Kerry, who volunteered for the war before he volunteered to oppose it).
RE: Fighting Evil - Jonathan - 11-03-2005 05:57 PM
I only have 2 things to say.
1) I\'d really urge you to stop posting in this kind of threads & shut up about these topics in general.
2) At least until you\'ve signed up for the army, got yer training & are shipped off to a war zone. Then you can decide to kill someone first hand, get injured, killed yourself & see your friends or other people die in front of your eyes right where you\'re standing.
When that\'s happened, let\'s see how you talk about the subject when you get back. Only people who are either really really dumb or mentally ill talk the shit you boys are talking right now.
Killing people is just flat out wrong any way you try to spin it. It\'s always somebodys father, mother, son, daughter, husband or wife.
RE: Fighting Evil - shift - 11-03-2005 06:32 PM
Well, this isn\'t the first time something like this is discussed here, and it always ends like that. Don\'t take it that personally. It\'s just the usual random talking after all, or that\'s my appreciation, unless any poster is an active politician, soldier or cop, that I doubt.
RE: Fighting Evil - =D.C.L.I=TuRb0jUg3nD - 11-03-2005 06:51 PM
Well then you should just get rid of the whole political discussions forum.
To be fair, this started as a philosophical tread. Not suprisingly it was hijacked by me and others who still have major gripes about USAs involvment in Iraq, et al.
It is pretty interesting to see that it is only Pun and Boom and a few others who manages to keep a cool theoretical distance to all this, whilst almost everybody who oppose their standpoint can\'t seem to distance themselves from the grim realities of the day. Is it the ?Lord of the Flies?-syndrome? ?Kill the pig!?? Self-rightous wrath; majority can be a real bore like that.
Its kinda weird to me that I can enjoy conservative humourist PJ O\'Rourkes books (?Give war a chance?, ?Republican party reptiles?) but often see red when Pun offers similar sentiments (with considerable less humour, but still).
I would never permit myself to lose my cool to this degree, outside of here. I really must get a grip. So yeah, kill the political thread. Not because people get offended, but \'cause Turbo keeps losing his cool.
RE: RE: Fighting Evil - joeb - 11-03-2005 10:01 PM
Sgt. Boomer Wrote:The point is, it’s very nice of the UN to grant every person on the planet the right to vote and to be free from torture, but guess who’s enforcing that right in Iraq? Guess who’s enforcing it in Vietnam? Oh, that’s right- nobody
well, yeah that happens, sadly. But I\'m mainly pointing at the USA which often claims to be \'oh so good and righteous\'....:roll:
I guess the fact that they\'re simply so hypocrite gets me somethimes.
RE: RE: Fighting Evil - Big-Al - 11-03-2005 10:09 PM
shift Wrote:Well, this isn\'t the first time something like this is discussed here, and it always ends like that. Don\'t take it that personally. It\'s just the usual random talking after all, or that\'s my appreciation, unless any poster is an active politician, soldier or cop, that I doubt.yes, most of us are geeks at best (sometimes drunk ones) :\\
exept maybe TuRb0jUg3nD, he\'s just stonned :tup:
no honest to god intelectual would stay around here anyway would they???
AnGof doesn\'t post that much :wall:
RE: Fighting Evil - =D.C.L.I=TuRb0jUg3nD - 11-04-2005 01:10 AM
:lol:
Good one, Al. And yes, I am toootally \"stonned\"!
RE: Fighting Evil - =D.C.L.I=Everest - 11-04-2005 02:10 AM
What would that be then, stunned from being stoned?